Some thoughts about heaven and eternity

As a kid, I never really believed in heaven, but I heard about it so much I couldn't help but think about it. So my idea of heaven started out like the cartoon version, like we pretty much all imagine, but that's where the similarities end.

See I was having a real hell of a time imagining eternity. I was trying to figure out how the hell I would spend my time up there. I heard people at church talking about how they were looking forward to an eternity praising god, and as a kid, I was like... "dude I can't even do that for 5 minutes with you freaks without going nuts from boredom." (Side Story, they said "Oh it will be much better praising god when god is actually with us" I responded "I thought you said god WAS here with us" She replied "Oh, well he is but we can't see him, it will be better when we can see god" I said "so if I close my eyes up in heaven it'll be like down on earth?" And she said "Oh you won't want to close your eyes up in heaven!" Yeah, that's word for word)

So where was I? Oh right, eternity. So I was trying to imagine what I would DO with my eternity. My first idea was, just watching, everybody. I would watch people live their entire lives, and I would do that, for everyone. I figured, I would start with the people I knew best, like my best friends, and family. I was curious to see what they all did when I wasn’t around. What I missed and stuff. Then I thought “Wow I’ll be watching a lot of people just watching TV a lot… oh well”. So yeah, after I watch all my friends, I’ll watch all their friends and so on, kind of in an outward circle from myself.

Another idea I had was that I would almost HAVE to be able to read their minds. I thought, “you know it would be fun to know what people were really thinking. I would read the mind of every liar. Know every reason for every action. Not only would I see the people do the things, but I would know why they did it. I would know why people were mean, know why people were nice. So yeah, when I die, I’ll watch everyone and not just watch, I’ll read their minds too.

Then it hit me, if I was going to do this, I would have to watch everybody die. If I was going to watch the entire life of everyone who ever lived, I would have to watch the deaths to, and some would be very early. I thought about all the little kids that died. For a brief moment I though “Well that’s ok because when you die you just go to heaven right? It’s not really a big deal”. Then I remembered not everyone goes to heaven. So I would watch people live their lives, know their every thought, see their death, then know they’re down in hell. And it would happen a lot. Probably most of the time, if what the church people say is true, only a few people are going to heaven. They said “You probably have friends at school that are going to hell” (Yeah it was a real nice church…)

Then I thought back to the praise thing. And thought, well what makes a person go to hell. Because I went to a church that said all the time “There will be good people in hell!” that was what I heard as a kid. “There WILL be good people in hell!” That angered the crap out of me. I’m going to go to heaven and watch good people, live their lives, hear all their thoughts, then watch them die, and know they’re in hell, forever. I would know that for every second I’m sitting up in heaven bored out of my mind, there were good people down in hell, that were there because they didn’t say some stupid magic word. They didn’t praise the stupid god that I didn’t think deserved praise.

Then I continued to think about eternity. I though, ok so maybe watching people live their lives is out. I just can’t handle thinking about the good people that were sent to hell. So what AM I going to do? I sure as hell don’t want to praise god. I’m not spending one second of my eternity singing stupid songs at god. So what AM I going to do? I never did come up with an answer to that question. And while I was thinking of one, I realized that even if I DID watch the life of every single person that ever lived, it would still be instantaneous in the face of eternity. So what would I do with all that friggin time? I don’t know. Would god eventually get bored with us and go off to start a new universe? Hey, maybe we aren’t the first. Why the hell did god make us anyway? What are his motives? Are our lives really just entertainment to him? Did he make us just to watch us? What happens when he gets bored? Will he just send us all to hell and start over? What if god stops loving us? If god can send people to hell for such a stupid reason once, who’s to say he won’t do it again.

It was questions like those, that helped me realize, it’s all nonsense. None of it makes sense.

I started looking around, people would give thanks to god, when god didn’t do anything. They would just thank god for everything. If someone looked like they were going to be late, but showed up just slightly late instead “Oh thank god you’re here!” Why thank god? He didn’t do anything. People would give god credit for stupid stuff, and claim that was proof of his existence. People would pray, and nothing would happen. It didn’t seem to make any difference.

So I began wondering, what proof do we have that there even is a god? The story doesn’t make any sense; the Bible is full of crazy garbage, all the people that believe seem like lunatics…

So yeah. It’s not true. Not one word of it. There is no god. There never was one. We may not know how we got here but it certainly wasn’t the Christian god. I would bet my soul on it, but, well it’s kind of hard to since they don’t exist either.

I just find it unfathomable how people can believe this garbage. They look forward to praising god for eternity. That alone it astonishing. They can’t have given it much thought, they just can’t. Like, what happens if you want to take a break? Is god going to glare at you and say get back to singing and praising my name!” That lady at the church, like, she actually believed that once we finally get to heaven and see god, we are NEVER going to want to take our eyes off of “him” and that we will be happy and honored to just sing about how great he is, forever. And I guess they don’t envision god ever getting bored with that.

I once got into trouble for posting a number, it was a 1, followed by a lot of zero’s. I don’t remember exactly how many, but the number was so large it was crashing peoples browsers when they clicked the topic. That number, is less than 1/ that number of eternity. So let’s say:

900 billion, to the 900 billionth power = N,  

And “N” will basically be an insignificant amount of time. Basically like a fraction of a second down here. Only much, much smaller. I could say “A fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second” but that wouldn’t even begin to express how small “N” is next to eternity. We seriously can’t fathom it. Heaven would be hell. I can only imagine what hell would be like.

People like to throw around words like “Fire” and “Freezing cold”. They like to speculate. Wonder what’s in store for all the “good people” that didn’t ask Jesus into their hearts, as their personal lord and savior.

I swear I can get so wrapped up in this crap, I have to remind myself why I’m mad. I’m not mad because I think this shit is real, I’m mad because I know it isn’t, and I think everyone else does too. They HAVE to. There’s no way anyone can think about “N” and think, “yeah, I want to praise god for N to the Nth power, and then I’ll want to praise god some more!”  I know they think stupid shit like “Yeah I’ll get to see grandma again and we’ll go on picnics!”

People don’t think about monotony. A day in heaven won’t be amazing. It will be tedious. If we even have days, and why would we really? Will heaven revolve around a sun? Will it be spherical? If you dig into the ground in heaven what will you find? Will there be dirt in heaven? Will there be worms in the dirt? I guess so because I know there’s a shit-ton of people looking forward to “goin fishin with god up in heaven”, so I guess they’ll have to have worms. But what if you don’t like worms? Well you can just go to the other side of heaven right? Away from the worms? Well, what if someone picks up a worm and tosses it at you? Will it still be heaven?

Also what about football? We can assume there will be a lot of football players in heaven right? So what happens when they both pray to god for a victory? What if someone dodges a tackle, runs 99 yards in for the touchdown, then thanks god for the help. Will the person he dodged feel cheated? Will he ask god “why did you help him and not me?”

I know I know, this is getting stupid. I could do this forever though. (No not really, that was a joke).

Heaven is such god damn bullshit. Just think about it for five seconds.

Maybe I’ll write more about this later. But just think about the largest amount of time you can fathom, being absolutely insignificant. Less than a millisecond. Far less. The tiniest fraction of a millisecond you can imagine. That’s how insignificant the largest amount of time you can imagine is.

And what are you going to do with all that fucking time? Look at your watch and pray that some day it will stop ticking? Well it won’t. There’s no escape. Well, maybe god will notice you aren’t praising him and send you to hell. Forever. And ever, and ever. Halleluiah.

 So be thankful death is the end. Because forever is a long, long time.

Post in which I talk about family drama

Question for my fellow atheists regarding young siblings or nieces/nephews.

king gimpy (tc) Posted 12/28/2010 10:58:00 PM message detail filter | quote #001	OK so as I'm sure pretty much every regular here knows I am an atheist, an atheist from a Christian family. So far that's been an OK situation. In fact, it's improved a bit as my family as a whole seems to have become more accepting of my fiance and I's atheism. Recently I learned my youngest sister is pregnant and that I'll be an uncle sometime next year. I'm excited by this news and can't wait to be an uncle but there is a situation that I am almost positive will come up and I am unsure how to deal with it. Given that my entire family is religious save for myself, I am positive my future niece or nephew will be brought up in Christianity. Since they will be brought up in it from birth I'm sure they will adhere to it, at least for their childhood if not for much longer. The issue is, I know eventually they will ask whether I or my fiance believe in God. Both her and I are rather certain in our disbelief but I'm unsure how to explain this to them if they are young. I don't want them suddenly thinking their uncle Andy and aunt Dawn are bad people or something. Have any of you experienced something similar? If so, how did you handle it? I'm not talking about pushing the kid towards disbelief, that's not my place. However, I feel it would be wrong to lie and claim I believe in God, so I know I'm going to have to at least try and attempt to explain why neither of us do. --- Just remember I will always love you, even as I tear your ****ing throat away.
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Juiceman_Shado Posted 12/28/2010 11:13:53 PM message detail filter | quote #003	more accepting ofme and my fiance's atheism. Fixed. Also, isn't your youngest sister still in high school? Can't wait to see her on MTV. Anyway, I'm pretty sure children don't concern themselves with things regarding God anyway, so any question they ask certainly isn't going to mean much to them the next day. Just don't lie to the kid, and I can guarantee (not literally, obviously, but you get the idea) that the only way they'll think uncle Andy is bad is if their parents tell them so.   ----------------------------------------------
king gimpy (tc) Posted 12/28/2010 11:17:27 PM message detail filter | quote #004	Fuck you Shado, You god damn troll.
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Juiceman_Shado Posted 12/28/2010 11:19:07 PM message detail filter | quote #006	From: king gimpy | #004 **** you. So you're just going to ignore the rest of that post? Come on, I was TROLLING... (Like I always do)
king gimpy (tc) Posted 12/28/2010 11:22:55 PM message detail filter | quote #007	From: Juiceman_Shado | #006 So you're just going to ignore the rest of that post? Come on, I was kidding... I love how this is your response everytime someone get's bothered at your complete and utter inability to act like a civil human being. Do you have social interaction problems Shado? Because you seem completely unable to go five seconds without saying something insensitive to another human. You're like Michael from The Office, except worse because at least his character is written to be funny and a conscious effort is made by a team of writers to make him act that way. You're an actual person and yet somehow manage to come off as offensive in most of your interactions with people here. --- Just remember I will always love you, even as I tear your ****ing throat away.
Juiceman_Shado Posted 12/28/2010 11:31:32 PM message detail filter | quote #008	------------------------------------------------- I love how this is your response everytime someone get's bothered at your complete and utter inability to act like a civil human being. Not really, since most of the time it's something religion-related and people just don't like it and claim it's "trolling", even though it is genuine. Do you have social interaction problems Shado? I love how this is your response everytime you get's bothered by my posts. Because you seem completely unable to go five seconds without saying something insensitive to another human. I didn't know being on TV was something horrible. Oops. You're an actual person and yet somehow manage to come off as offensive in most of your interactions with people here. Statistically speaking, no. But I see that you're mad now, so I'll just leave this topic alone before I anger you further. If I thought I really crossed the line here (which I admit, I have done in the past - no one's perfect) I'd say sorry, but I don't think I did so... bye?
king gimpy (tc) Posted 12/28/2010 11:37:39 PM message detail filter | quote #009	------------------------------ From: Juiceman_Shado | #008 Statistically speaking, no. But I see that you're mad now, so I'll just leave this topic alone before I anger you further. If I thought I really crossed the line here (which I admit, I have done in the past - no one's perfect) I'd say sorry, but I don't think I did so... bye? Ah I see, so I can say anything I want towards you and so long as I personally don't feel I've crossed a line (which would be hard to do considering what I think of you as a person), everything I say is just dandy and you have no right to get upset? You really see nothing wrong with that train of thought? --- Just remember I will always love you, even as I tear your ****ing throat away.
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JamesB0ndOO7 Posted 12/29/2010 12:14:02 AM message detail filter | quote #011	ITT: Gimpy is very, very, very easily trolled. --- Do you know what an alt is? If you did, you'd know I don't have any right now. ~Shado http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxDemDZWktM
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OrangeWizard Posted 12/29/2010 12:29:12 AM message detail filter | quote #013	From: Juiceman_Shado | #003 Also, isn't your youngest sister still in high school? Can't wait to see her on MTV. You win. So hard. So much.

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I have a lot to say about this topic.

First, Shado is troll incarnate. OW seems to be too. They may not respect me, but I have so little respect for those two, it's not even funny.


Second, I two am the only atheist in the family, that I know of, and would love to tell my heavily indoctrinated cousins this and that. I would never just say "there isn't a god" so simply, but I wish I could let them know things aren't so frigging black and white. They are told there IS a god, 100%, which IS a lie, and I'm not allowed to say "Well no, there probably isn't a god."

It can be infuriating knowing that these kids are being lead down a road, being force fed garbage. I would hate if they turned out to be little pricks like Shado or OW. Unthinking drones. Trolls 4 Jesus.

But they aren't my kids. The only reason I still get to see them as much as I do is because I haven't opened my mouth. I mean the family even trusts me alone with the kids, which I do appreciate. (Just this Christmas I was the only supervisor while the kids all played Nintendo upstairs, 2 or 3 years ago this would have never been allowed, someone would always be "keeping an eye on me" so to speak, to ensure I didn't say anything.)

So yeah, it's a terrible situation. With no easy answer. Because every time I see those kids, I just want to tell them that not everyone agree's with them. They go to a private christian elementary school. All I can do is sit and observe, they are smart maybe they'll come around on their own. Or maybe in 50 years I'll still be the only non-believer.

As for me calling Shado out on his trolling, and OW to a lesser extent for getting off on Shado's trolling, I'm sure they will mark my post. I'm sure they marked Gimpys. I'm sure they'll deny both actions.

Anyway, good luck. I wish I could give you some answers, but I don't have any. I'm not sure there's much you could do even if you wanted to. Pulling them aside when mom and dad aren't looking and saying "Hey guess what, you're being brainwashed" doesn't fly. You would just be labeled as a "suppressive person" by the family and you'd stop getting invites to the holiday parties. Maybe, I'm pretty sure that I'd only get one shot. After that the kids would say something to someone, the parent's would say "who told you there was no god, that's silly?" then it'd get tracked back to me, and well, then things would get interesting. Things would go back to "watch that damn atheist like a friggin hawk" mode.

So yeah, I just have to relax and remember that I came out ok. Whatever happens, happens. The future remains a mystery.

I also want to point out to the mods that Shado and OW weren't even invited to this topic. This was an atheist only topic and they came in specifically to troll it. For what it's worth, I personally have no respect left for either of them. (Not that that was exactly a secret.) So yeah, I'm sure they will mark this post, and some mod will read it. what did they mark it as? Flaming? I'm not flaming at all, I'm stating facts. Shado DID troll Gimpy. This isn't ambiguous. And OW did come in and get off on the successful trolling, rubbing salt in the wound so to speak. Neither of them had any business in this topic. I'm also clearly not trolling. But I'm sure I'll be punished anyway.

Yay?

Let's hope it's JUST a 3 karma loss.

Fuck you Gamefaq's.

Seriously. Fuck you.

Here's what happened. I made a dumb post.  It happens. Then I get a 10 karma loss and 2 day "warning" for it.

That is a severe punishment. For a nothing non-issue.

So I contested it. And here's the whole thing.

You said on

11/3/2010 1:46:50 PM

                Are you serious? Yes it was a silly little off topic post, but 2 days and 10 karma? What the hell? Am I being punished for past crimes or something? Do I have some red flag next to my name that says "Punish this guy severely every time, never just delete his post and let that be that"?

10 karma and 2 days for an off topic? (That isn't even off-topic by the way) If I had a post that said my guy has a nice looking sword, would that have gotten me a 10 day ban? I was talking about the in game model. (Dies was a typo by the way, I meant to write "does" but eh, it was a dumb post anyway so I just left it. )

Seriously you guys need to tell me if I'm just not allowed to post anymore, or if there's some mod that's getting off on punishing me for nothing. WHY is this a 10 Karma 2 day suspension? It's just a silly little thing. The kind of post that should either be left alone, or deleted with no karma loss if you really don't want it around.

So yeah, I'm arguing that my post wasn't off-topic in the first place.

* Unless a board specifically is listed as a social board, you should assume that topicality is enforced. All boards for games on modern systems are topical. When creating a topic, a warning will be displayed to the user reminding them when a board is topical.

* On a board for a particular game or system, topics should always be related to that game or system in some manner. Topics about users on the board, the board itself, or not about the game or system in any way are clearly off-topic.

* When a special interest board has been created for a particular topic, discussion of that topic on game boards will normally be considered off-topic. For example, discussion of the current NFL season belongs on the Sports and Racing: Football board, but not on the Madden NFL game board.

* Creating a topic that does not relate to the game or system and then adding small "on-topic" content to the post does not make the post on-topic. Your entire topic should relate to the game or system in question, not just some small portion of it.

* The message boards are a public forum, and not meant for private messages between users - topics used for private messages to individuals or groups (even about in-game activities) can be considered off-topic on gaming or special interest boards.

Those are the rules. Point out which I broke.

Let's go through the 5 point by point.

First point is moot.

Second point, "topics should always be related to that game or system in some manner." My post was, in EVERY manor.

Third point is moot.

Fourth point, "Your entire topic should relate to the game or system in question, not just some small portion of it." Check. Entire post is about Warcraft. Nothing else.

And Point Five, not a private message to a user.

So therefore, my post is NOT off-topic in the first place. Therefore, there was no crime and ergo, no punishment. Instead, there was no crime, and a severe punishment. I want to know why.

A Mod/Admin replied on

11/3/2010 2:01:10 PM

                You're not discussing the video game, you made a joke topic about character in game having a nice ass.

Also you may not dispute based on harshness either, but with a large suspension like that, any minor violation can get you at least warned.

You said on

11/3/2010 2:25:48 PM

                So I AM being unfairly punished severely because I was unfairly punished severely last month on a different board? You're saying that every time I have a post moderated now for any reason, I'll be set to warned and lose 10 karma? Oh I'm sorry, that's the LEAST that can happen.

I have a lot to say here. Really, I've written and deleted a lot of stuff.

Punishing people because they were punished is stupid. It's horrible. It's evil.

I shouldn't have gotten the 30 day ban, I said it then and I say it now. I shouldn't have gotten the ban I got just before the 30 day ban either. But that IS off topic, isn't it? So we won't talk about that.

I was punished, whether or not I was fairly punished (I wasn't) is irrelevant.

I did my time and now things should go back to normal. I should be able to make silly little posts just like I have for the past 7 or 8 years. I should be able to be an idiot, just like every other user here. I should be allowed to have fun and be stupid. I should be able to make harmless little impulse posts without worrying about getting another friggin ban.

If any other poster had posted this, it would have just been deleted. But because it was me, this happens. I'm not one to cry persecution, but what am I supposed to conclude here?

Take me off your black list and let's get things back to normal. In fact, delete the black list all together. It isn't right to punish people for "crimes" they've already paid for.

A Mod/Admin replied on

11/3/2010 3:25:32 PM

                You don't seem to be disputing this moderation, and are instead launching into a rant about a previous suspension that was handled by the site's administrator.

I guess we're done here then.

So really what Can I say? I get another reply but... seriously these guys suck. 

Fuck you, you anonymous mod.  Fuck you Gamefaq's. 

 

Calling it now…

The retard that jumps off the boat is Deathwing.

 

"I wonder what happens when we die"

I just saw a movie ad that said that. A few weeks ago it was ""If a person is evil enough can they come back from the dead?"

Is this really how people think? People are dimwits.

Another thing, I'm watching Lonestar, enjoying the show, and I find out it's been canceled after 2 episodes. I hate this, knowing that the show won't be resolved. They only filmed 5 episodes, and yeah, bam.

FOX is terrible about this.

I watched "The Event" it was really stupid. REALLY stupid.

"The Whole Truth" was good, I'll watch it if it stays on.

Chase sort of bored me halfway through.

I'm just bummed, Lonestar was a pretty good show, I wanted to see how bad things could get...

Oh well, that's what I get for trying to watch a show on FOX...

More updates later.

Suspended again?!

Ok, fuck this. I'm so sick of GameFAQ's. The Religion board is a joke. I'm not going back there. I'm not even sure I'll still have an account to go back with. I'm done, it's over. I'm not posting there anymore. I said that last time I know, but this time I mean it. I am pissed.

 

What got me into trouble you ask? This, which I was going to post here anyway.

 

Here, enjoy. The topic title was originally how to be a well loved poster, but sort of evolved.

 

1. Barely ever make any topics of your own

 

2. Don't have strong opinions either way, be as close to "True Neutral" as possible.

 

3. Say we can't know for sure who's right so everyone's opinions and beliefs are equally valid.

 

4. Mock people with strong opinions, as if having conviction instantly makes the person a fool.

 

5. Write long pseudo-philosophical posts that don't say much.

 

6. Claim to respect everyone's opinions without really expressing any of your own much.

 

7. Post news stories and ask for comments, without giving any yourself.

 

 

Hmm, I'll add more later, and I did delete a lot that were too specific.

 

But really, try it yourself. Think of all the people on this board you would consider well liked. Not that you necessarily like them yourself, but you just get the vibe that most people like them.

 

From what I've seen, the most well liked people never, ever attack anyone, rarely make interesting topics of their own, if they do make topics they're either dull, or links to news stories where they don't comment themselves. Being neutral doesn't necessarily mean agnostic atheist, agnostic Christians or whatever can be neutral too.

 

Basically, if you call people out on the foolish things they believe, like I do, you get scorn. If you play flower child hippy, you become popular and well loved.

 

I guess I can understand how I got the reputation I have. Attacking religion on the religious board seems like I'm just being a jerk, but in reality, I just want you guys to, stop believing in stuff on faith, that's a good first step.

 

Take for example the soul. There's no reason to believe a soul exists. None at all. Yet people believe. Why?

 

If I could figure that out... I may finally be able to sleep peacefully at night.

 

How can people believe this stuff? They believe Jesus healed by touch. They KNOW no one can do that. Faith healers are ALL con men, it's been documented. So are intermediary's, psychics, fortune tellers, and Ghost Hunters. People believe in mystical healing energy. They pay LARGE amounts of money to lay on a table listening to Enya, and having pretty crystals waved all around them. That makes them feel better. But they're still sick. Their belief that the crystals helped them isn't valid. and I can't have respect for people that believe things like that. When I'm talking to a girl, and for example, she tells me she's a wicca and she believes in astrology, I die a little inside. People really believe the way the planets and stars were aligned when you were born affects things.

 

People believe, for some reason, in reincarnation. It's an interesting idea, I'll admit. But, we're still hung up on the soul thing. Everything we know tells us when the brain dies, that's IT. We scan the brain, get people angry and we can see anger nodes light up, make them look at someone they love, love nodes light up. Sociopaths have something wrong with their brains, they aren't possessed by demons. We have no reason to believe demons even exist, do we?

 

And when I ask for proof, you... jokers, you clowns, you hilarious folks... you tell me to prove souls don't exist. You say "you say souls don't exist, prove it!" Like you're some genius. You can't DISPROVE something that doesn't exist, and you don't HAVE to. Well, you shouldn't. The fact that people believe in things with no proof, it mucks up the science. You guys jump right past all your stuff, you jump past the testing and evidence and the double blind studies, to belief. I can't tell you how little I think of people that do that. I can't respect you. I can't act like you're smart when you show no signs of intelligences. You don't get a free pass just for being a human in the modern age, and knowing a few things other people figured out using processes you ignore.

 

Listen. I know. You hear god talk to you. You see signs of his existence everywhere. You think I'm just stubbornly denying his obvious existence, or maybe I'm blinded from the truth by Satan's forces. Hell I don't know what you think of me honestly.

 

The only real critique I get, is that my writing style is not acceptable, I spell words wrong from time to time, and I'm harsh, or just really aggressive. I've been called an angstheist, although thankfully not lately as that's one of the most annoying insults for some reason.

And yeah, I am wound up tight about this stuff. For some reason I have a strong urge to bring people into the real world. Maybe it's self-preservation. Being around delusional people is scary. Just sit next to a homeless guy on the bus, who barks and yells at no one, swatting at the air furiously.

The rules here are something I will never grow to just accept, they aren't fair, everyone knows it now. I'm not in the mood to reiterate that.

So why do people laugh at me? Because I say things people disagree with? Because I say it "wrong"?

I say there's no soul, people demand I prove it, I say there's no evidence that one exists, and I'm told that's not good enough. You guys, and I know I'm generalizing, but that's ridiculous. Pointing out there's no supporting evidence to a claim you guys "have faith in" IS enough.

Then things get mucked up in probability. Or people will say "Well people theorized about atoms before we could see them…". Whatever it takes to justify your irrational beliefs. I never thought I could see so much frigging back bending, you guys are masters I'll give you that, NOTHING, and I mean nothing I can ever say will make you guys resort to using logic and common sense. You do everything you can to avoid actually answering questions. The most popular is shifting the burden of proof. You think "Well I can't prove there's a soul, but HA! He's saying there isn't one, that's an assertive claim, he just grabbed the burden of proof!"

No. just no. All I'm doing is pointing out that you never had a right to make the claim in the first place. But the claims were grandfathered in.

We have sort of a weird take on knowledge. We value the knowledge of our father more than that of our brother. And Grand Fathers and Grand Mothers are thought to be wiser still. And if you're lucky enough to have a Great Grandfather or Great Grandmother, well we value their insight most of all. So I guess we just consider that pattern back, thinking every previous generation gets progressively smarter.

Think of how much admiration and respect is put on the American forefathers for example, then back much farther to the Greek philosophers, they're thought to be the smartest people EVER. So we mistakenly think that you can find answers in what the people of the past believed.

You can even think that if you go back far enough you'll find people who were around at the very beginning, , but that isn't true. People weren't around when the earth formed. The people of the past looked to the past for wisdom too. Only, now we know that, they were wrong about a LOT of things.

And we can't let go of their mistakes. We hold onto their crazy guesses with our very lives. People made up the soul. People made up god. People made up devils and angels. People made up EVERYTHING.

Why is that so hard for you people to accept? You know how good our imaginations are! Look how many fantasy worlds and creatures we've created for Elune's sake!

Self-preservation is one of our strongest drives. We do not want to die. Our entire lives are pretty much "I don't want to die, I don't want my genetics to die". Food, house, money, all survival stuff, and our obsession with romance is to keep the family line going. We want to live. So the idea of us just dying someday, it kills is. We don't want that. We are all going to get sick, or injured and die. Someday our heart will stop beating. Electricity will stop fuzzing around in our heads, and that's it. There's no reason to believe your ghost will continue on without the body, and you'll still be you.

That's stupid. Do you have any clue how stupid that is? That's not the end of it though, people REALLY put wishful thinking, wish fulfillment into full blast. What if you got brain damaged a week before you died. Would you be brain damaged in the afterlife? What if you went blind 5 years before you died? Lost some limbs?

Yeah, yay for you, you get to be in your best possible condition! Sucks to be you if you were always fat and born blind. But not everyone believes that. That's the funny thing about belief, there can only be one truth, and everyone thinks THEY have it. In any other situation, you could just figure out the answer. But here, people make stuff up and believe it, then teach it to their kids and tell them they must believe or their soul will regret it. People don't even stop to think "I have a soul?" or "There's a place we can't get to that we go when we die?"

Maybe people do think that, but not for long. They're told doubts are bad, have more faith, faith is good, faith is good, have more faith, faith is good, faith is good, have more faith, faith is good, faith is good.

Have more faith, faith is good, faith is good. Don't question things, the Pope in infallible, Denying God's Existence is an unpardonable sin, don't even THINK of doing that. Because really, there's no reason to believe, so we have to make you afraid of the punishment you get for not believing. That's why this all revolves around belief, it's the ONE thing they need to keep you roped in.

They have to get you to believe without questioning WHY you believe.

Seriously, think, WHY do you believe a soul exists? Because someone you trust told you it does? And a book you trust told them, and you that it does?

What do you believe, and why?

Do you have actual evidence? Do you even care that you don't? You know damn well it's impossible to disprove things that don't exist, and you use that to convince yourself your beliefs are just as valid as those that don't believe. They aren't. At all.

Not only do we have NO REASONS to believe in the soul, but we have many not to. But I'm going in a loop. I just have to reiterate this because, maybe this time it will stick.

Extraordinary claims and beliefs, require extraordinary evidence. Not NONE. You can't just pile on more faith to get over the lack of actual reasons to believe. Hell, some people claim to believe things 100% on faith, and are PROUD of that! I would be humiliated if I believed something I didn't have one actual reason to believe.

I believe in god because the bible says so, and you have to believe everything in the bible because god wrote it. How do I know god wrote the bible? The bible says so! Why do I believe the bible? Because it's the word of God! How do I know it's the word of God? The bible says so! And that's good enough for me, because who am I to question god, or god's word.

I know, I know, no one HERE has to resort to circular reasoning. Everyone here believes for good valid reasons. Just like all the people that deconverted did before they realized, they didn't. They realized they didn't have actual reasons. They realize the stories make no sense. They realize there's no evidence. No actual reason to believe.

So maybe someday you'll look back on the way you think now, and see yourself from my point of view. Someday you'll see that you believed nonsense for no reason. You'll see why people call faith a virus, the worst thing that can ever infect your mind.

I take no pleasure in knowing there's no afterlife, but I do take great comfort in knowing there's know hell. I know there's no hell like I know there's no Xenomorph in my closet dripping acid on the floor. I know that I will never solve a puzzle box and go to Cenobite land. I know I'll never rub a lamp and find a genie. I know there are no jewels I can attach to a sword to "power it up". I know no one will ever shoot fire from their eyes. I know these things will never happen. Hell doesn't get a free pass. Nothing does. I know there's no soul because there's no reason to believe there is one.

And yes, culture. I know. Heart and soul. Soul mates. Tainted Soul. Favored Soul. Old Soul, Corrupt Soul, Divine Soul. I know I know. That doesn't mean it actually exists. It just means you're influences by hearing positive reinforcement every day of your life.

Anyway, I'm pretty tired. I'm going to bed.

Forgive any errors, I'm too tired to proofread this.

Oh and yeah, this topic sort of evolved, I would go back and fix the beginning, but I'm too tired, I barely made it to the end.

 

So yeah, that got me suspended. I don't care anymore. Seriously, I don't. I have the blog now, I'll write here. I don't have any readers yet, but I'll get some.

My account will likely be suspended for at least a month, if not longer. So I'll have a lot of free time to post here. I've got a lot of work to do on this place anyway.

So yeah, wanted to post this. I feel better. I'm still annoyed. For so many reasons, but, I'll be ok. I just won't ever post there again. Maybe I'll link to here, but I don't even know.

All my late night long winded rants will be here from now on. But hey, I went out with a bang. And well, maybe I'll get my account back some day. When you're suspended, they don't tell you for how long right away, they have to review things.

I'll keep you all updated.

Ok, now I’m pissed

Forgive this posts rushed nature I want to get this out before I calm down.

On a message board I frequent (But am strongly considering abandoning) I just saw a topic that seriously pissed me off. It said:

There's a special place in hell for Christoher Hitchens when he gets there

   

I have no problem with people being atheist, but this guy is a grade A d-bag.

 

Silver Screemer: (me)

Wow, this topic is...

 

Ok so we're allowed to say:

 

Hell exists.

 

And a popular author is going there.

 

But we're not allowed to say there is no hell and you're a horrible person for taking joy in what you perceive to be someones eternal damnation?

 

I have a problem with you TC. This topic is abysmal on so many levels, and you don't even see it.

 

You're not going to an afterlife when you die, you'll rot in the ground, just like all the people you hate so much. That's reality. Deal with it.

 

If you get to declare that people you don't like are going to suffer for all time, and beyond, in an especially vile part of hell just for him, surely I can tell you what's actually going to happen to you when you die, right?

 

Right?

 

Yeah.

   

Heh, sorry your post just rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't have a great love for Hitchens, I just know that you probably feel the same about me than you do about him. (And if you didn't before you do now I'm sure)

 

Yeah I know I probably broke the rules for saying there's no hell but fuck it. That post seriously annoyed me. And it's not JUST that, it's all the smug arrogance Christians, and maybe all religious people have, although some claim (and maybe actually possess) humility.

 

The whole "ha ha you're going to hell, my daddy's going to punish you for being different than me" mentality is fucking annoying. Worse than the "I'll pray for you" thing.

 

Why is it so bad? Well for starters, it takes for granted that they ARE right, it skips the debate and declares them the winners before anything is even said. Everything they believe is true, no question about it. Then, after they "established" that there is a Hell, they pass judgment on someone themselves. They then take delight in the sinners punishment.

This has ALWAYS been the point of hell. People don't talk about it much anymore, but that the "Saved" could sit in heaven and watch the damned suffer for all time, was a huge part of the appeal of heaven. People will deny this of course, but actions speak louder than words. Without even thinking Christians constantly take solace that "people will get their punishment". They would be UPSET if they found out everyone went to heaven. They refuse to accept that possibility. THEY are going to heaven, and the people different than them are going to hell. They refuse to believe people have different sexual desires than they do (Or even worse, the same, only they're pissed off they have to repress theirs). They are disgusted by people who can enjoy "secular media". People think "Look at that guy, sure he's having fun now, but I'll be rewarded for my conservative ways, and he'll be punished for his "sins".

 

I want to point out that sins don't exist. They're like laws, but sometimes stupid. Ok, ok, often stupid. (Often is more than sometimes right?)

 

Ok well I put on Nick Cave and now I'm calm. (The Boatman's Call, to be specific, just one of his amazing albums) So yeah. I just had to get this out.

I'm sure some readers will declare me hellbound. I have a lot of anger towards religion and specifically Christianity. I know being an atheist technically free's me from caring about this stuff, I know I'm above it all. But I still care about people, a lot. It's quite a dilemma.

I don't want people to be stupid and believe foolish nonsense for illogical reasons.

Ok well, this one's done.